Comments on: Forget Orion, NASA http://www.j2fi.net/2007/05/20/forget-orion-nasa/ Yet Another Gaijin In Japan Wed, 07 Jan 2009 19:22:52 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: Brian http://www.j2fi.net/2007/05/20/forget-orion-nasa/comment-page-1/#comment-109 Brian Thu, 24 May 2007 01:35:40 +0000 http://www.j2fi.net/2007/05/20/forget-orion-nasa/#comment-109 <i>Thanks for giving me a bit more perspective on this subject, Brian. :)</i> Anytime. I do think a valid role for the State is to jump-start industry, encourage technology adoption as appropriate, fund wild goose ideas, etc. One of NASA's roles could be in fact to jump-start industry, build a cis-lunar infrastructure and so on. If you read some of Mike Griffen's speeches that seems to be what he's driving at. Alas stuff like that is a decades long effort - you can't just start and stop on political whim or 'industry' will get frustrated and look at you like you're spouting crazy talk. Free enterprise ain't perfect but you can usually rely on self-interest and a profit motive. Thanks for giving me a bit more perspective on this subject, Brian. :)

Anytime. I do think a valid role for the State is to jump-start industry, encourage technology adoption as appropriate, fund wild goose ideas, etc. One of NASA’s roles could be in fact to jump-start industry, build a cis-lunar infrastructure and so on. If you read some of Mike Griffen’s speeches that seems to be what he’s driving at.

Alas stuff like that is a decades long effort - you can’t just start and stop on political whim or ‘industry’ will get frustrated and look at you like you’re spouting crazy talk.

Free enterprise ain’t perfect but you can usually rely on self-interest and a profit motive.

]]> By: Jason http://www.j2fi.net/2007/05/20/forget-orion-nasa/comment-page-1/#comment-108 Jason Thu, 24 May 2007 01:19:07 +0000 http://www.j2fi.net/2007/05/20/forget-orion-nasa/#comment-108 Hmm ... in retrospect, I see that my stance was wrong. You're right that it's not NASA's job to jump-start an industry or make it easier for people and machinery to get into space. It seems I didn't properly think things through when I wrote this rant. Before going off on my next rant, I'll try to think about the reasons behind the decisions made. Clearly cooler heads were thinking about the requirements given the budget constraints. Thanks for giving me a bit more perspective on this subject, Brian. :) Hmm … in retrospect, I see that my stance was wrong.

You’re right that it’s not NASA’s job to jump-start an industry or make it easier for people and machinery to get into space. It seems I didn’t properly think things through when I wrote this rant.

Before going off on my next rant, I’ll try to think about the reasons behind the decisions made. Clearly cooler heads were thinking about the requirements given the budget constraints.

Thanks for giving me a bit more perspective on this subject, Brian. :)

]]> By: Brian http://www.j2fi.net/2007/05/20/forget-orion-nasa/comment-page-1/#comment-107 Brian Wed, 23 May 2007 14:20:14 +0000 http://www.j2fi.net/2007/05/20/forget-orion-nasa/#comment-107 Whoops - forgot my sig block. Brian Dunbar Systems Administrator LiftPort Whoops - forgot my sig block.

Brian Dunbar
Systems Administrator
LiftPort

]]> By: Brian http://www.j2fi.net/2007/05/20/forget-orion-nasa/comment-page-1/#comment-110 Brian Wed, 23 May 2007 14:19:42 +0000 http://www.j2fi.net/2007/05/20/forget-orion-nasa/#comment-110 <i>So to this end, I’d really like to see the aging shuttle fleet be granted a small reprieve with their retirement planned extended to 2015. In the next 8 years elevator technology could be refined even more, and we could have enough of a platform in place to bring people and materials to the ISS, and even send better designed vehicles to the moon and back.</i> One problem - we don't think space elevators will be ready for operation until at least 2031. Consider that we first need perfect and then learn how to manufacture the ribbon material in a cost effective manner. The proposed propulsion system - free electron laser - is a lab demo and has never been used commercially. And so on. These are not insurmountable efforts - clearly it's largely a matter of engineering R+D. But we gotta put all of these systems together and test them - it's no good if we launch the main system with no testing and find a bug in the system. Could a full-on Apollo Project style effort get all this done sooner? It probably could. Good luck getting one started - the age of heroic state-run projects is over. I'm not a NASA fan-boy but give them this; they were given a mandate to do a task and they are designing hardware to accomplish it. Their mandate has never been to jump-start an industry or, really, to enable our species to become extra-planetary. Given that they'd be foolish to spend money on it. It's Not Their Job. I look to private industry to solve the 'getting to space' problem. Elon Musk is building less-expensive rockets for cargo. Bezos, Virgin Galactic are building ships to take tourists to space. It's not 'orbit' and while that will be enormously more difficult if the incentive is there then people will make that next step. And the step after that. Perhaps we'll even see some success with a space elevator. So to this end, I’d really like to see the aging shuttle fleet be granted a small reprieve with their retirement planned extended to 2015. In the next 8 years elevator technology could be refined even more, and we could have enough of a platform in place to bring people and materials to the ISS, and even send better designed vehicles to the moon and back.

One problem - we don’t think space elevators will be ready for operation until at least 2031.

Consider that we first need perfect and then learn how to manufacture the ribbon material in a cost effective manner. The proposed propulsion system - free electron laser - is a lab demo and has never been used commercially. And so on.

These are not insurmountable efforts - clearly it’s largely a matter of engineering R+D. But we gotta put all of these systems together and test them - it’s no good if we launch the main system with no testing and find a bug in the system.

Could a full-on Apollo Project style effort get all this done sooner? It probably could. Good luck getting one started - the age of heroic state-run projects is over.

I’m not a NASA fan-boy but give them this; they were given a mandate to do a task and they are designing hardware to accomplish it. Their mandate has never been to jump-start an industry or, really, to enable our species to become extra-planetary.

Given that they’d be foolish to spend money on it. It’s Not Their Job.

I look to private industry to solve the ‘getting to space’ problem. Elon Musk is building less-expensive rockets for cargo. Bezos, Virgin Galactic are building ships to take tourists to space. It’s not ‘orbit’ and while that will be enormously more difficult if the incentive is there then people will make that next step. And the step after that. Perhaps we’ll even see some success with a space elevator.

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